Ep 104 Discovery Calls That Don’t Convert? Here’s Why (Interview with Sales Coach Adam Lowther - Part 1)

Let me paint a picture you might recognise…

You’re posting regularly.
You’re sharing genuinely helpful content.
People are liking, commenting, even sliding into your DMs.

And then… nothing.

No clients. No sales. Just more “I’ll think about it” messages and discovery calls that feel good — but don’t actually go anywhere.

If you’ve ever closed your laptop after a call and thought, “What did I do wrong there?” — you’re not alone.

And the truth is… it’s probably not what you think.

 

It’s Not a Visibility Problem (Even If It Feels Like One)

Most health professionals I speak to assume the issue is visibility.

“I just need more followers.”
“I need to post more consistently.”
“Maybe I need to try Reels…”

But here’s what I’ve seen time and time again (both in my own business and with my clients):

You already have people in your audience who are interested.

They’re watching.
They’re engaging.
They’re hovering… right on the edge of buying.

But they’re not quite stepping forward.

And that gap — between interest and action — is where the real work needs to happen.

 

Why Followers Don’t Turn Into Paying Clients

One of the biggest shifts you can make is understanding this:

Content builds awareness and trust… but it rarely converts on its own.

Think about how you consume content yourself.

You might watch a brilliant Instagram video or listen to a podcast episode and think, “That was so helpful.” And then… you move on with your day.

No action. No next step.

Your audience is doing exactly the same.

 

So what’s missing?

A clear, simple bridge between your content and your offer.

This is where your call to action (CTA) becomes everything.

Not:

• “Check out my website”
• “Let me know your thoughts”

But something specific, simple, and easy to act on.

Something like:

• Comment a keyword
• Click a link to a specific resource
• Send a quick DM

Because the easier you make it, the more likely people are to take that first step.

And that first step? That’s what leads to conversations. And conversations are what lead to clients.

 

The Real Reason Your Discovery Calls Aren’t Converting

Now let’s talk about discovery calls… because this is where so many brilliant clinicians get stuck.

You get someone on a call.
You have a lovely chat.
They say it sounds great.

And then…

“I just need to think about it.”

Sound familiar?

 

Here’s what’s actually going wrong

Most discovery calls skip over the most important part:

Helping the client fully understand the gap between where they are now and where they want to be.

Instead, we:

• Jump in too quickly with advice
• Start explaining our service too soon
• Stay at surface-level problems

And the result?

The client doesn’t feel the urgency to change.

 

What a High-Converting Discovery Call Actually Looks Like

A good discovery call isn’t about being “salesy”.

It’s about having a structured, meaningful conversation that helps someone feel seen, understood, and clear on what they need.

Here’s a simple way to think about it:

 

1. Understand Their “Point A”

Not just the clinical problem.

But the real-life impact of that problem.

Because it’s rarely just about:

• IBS symptoms
• Blood sugar levels
• Weight loss

It’s about:

• Not being able to leave the house without anxiety
• Missing out on family time
• Feeling exhausted, frustrated, and stuck

This is the part so many people rush past.

But it’s the part that actually matters most.

 

2. Explore Their “Point B”

Where do they actually want to be?

What would life look like if this problem was solved?

And gently (but clearly) exploring:

Why hasn’t this changed yet?

What have they already tried?
What’s got in the way?

Because if they believe they can fix it on their own… they won’t invest in support.

 

3. Position Your Offer as the Bridge

Only once that gap is clear do you introduce your offer.

And at this point, it shouldn’t feel like a pitch.

It should feel like the natural next step.

You’re not convincing them.

You’re simply showing them the path forward.

 

Why “I Need to Think About It” Isn’t the Real Objection

Let’s gently challenge something here…

When someone says, “I need to think about it”, they’re rarely asking for time.

They’re usually thinking one of three things:

• I’m not fully convinced this will work for me
• I don’t see the value clearly enough
• I’m unsure about the time or financial commitment

And if we just say, “No problem, let me know”… we lose the opportunity to help them make a decision that could genuinely change things for them.

 

A softer, more supportive approach

Instead of shutting the conversation down, you might say:

“That completely makes sense. Before we wrap up, can I just ask — what specifically would you need to think about?”

This keeps the conversation open.

It creates space for honesty.

And often, what comes up is something you can easily clarify or support them through.

 

The Mindset Shift That Changes Everything

This is the part that often feels uncomfortable… especially for healthcare professionals.

You’ve been trained to care.
To support.
To provide evidence-based advice.

Not to sell.

But here’s something worth sitting with:

If you truly believe your service can help someone… not offering it is a disservice.

Because they stay stuck.

Nothing changes.

And six months down the line… they’re still in the same place.

 

Why One-Off Sessions Don’t Support Real Transformation

I’m going to say something that might feel a little bold…

But it comes from a place of care.

One-off consultations rarely solve the full problem.

Because real change — especially in health — takes time, support, and follow-through.

And when your offer reflects that transformation (rather than a quick fix), it becomes much easier to:

• Communicate the value
• Build trust
• Convert clients

 

Bringing It All Together

If your discovery calls aren’t converting, it doesn’t mean you’re bad at sales.

It doesn’t mean you need more followers.

And it definitely doesn’t mean you need to become pushy or “salesy”.

More often than not, it’s just a few small shifts:

• Clearer calls to action in your content
• Deeper conversations on your discovery calls
• Stronger positioning of your offer as the bridge

And the best part?

These are all things you can learn, practise, and refine.

 

A Gentle Next Step

If you’re listening to this and thinking, “Yes… this is exactly where I’m getting stuck” — you’re not the only one.

This is the kind of work we do inside my world every single day.

Because building a business that actually brings in clients (without burnout, without second-guessing yourself) isn’t about doing more…

It’s about doing the right things — in the right way.

And you absolutely deserve that.

 

Connect with Adam Lowther:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adammarklowther 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-lowther-57a69b3b7/ 
Free training: The Canyon-To-Conversion Framework
https://stan.store/adamlowther/p/the-canyontoconversion-framework

 

The Master Plan:

Helping you build the business of your dreams. Get your 22 point step-by step workbook here: https://www.sarahalmondbushell.com/master-plan

 

 

Connect with me:

Website: https://www.sarahalmondbushell.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dietitiansinbusiness/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dietitiansinbusiness

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/beyondtheclinicbusiness

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondTheClinicPodcast

 

Episode transcription:

 

 

Welcome back to Beyond the Clinic. Now, I want to start today's episode with something that I see all the time inside my community. It's health professionals who are doing all of the right things. They're showing up, they're posting, they're having conversations, they're even getting inquiries. And yet when it comes to actually signing clients, something just isn't clicking. And more often than not, the instinct is to think.

I just need to get more visibility. I need more followers. I need more leads. But in reality, that's not always the problem. Because what I see time and time and time again is that there are people already in your world who are interested, but they're watching, they're engaging, they are almost ready, but they're just not buying. And that's exactly what we're going to dig into today because it's this where

Small shifts can actually make a massive difference, not just to your income, but to your confidence as a business owner as well. So today I have invited Adam Lowther onto the podcast. Now, Adam specializes in helping coaches and consultants understand what's happening between someone showing interest and actually becoming a paying client. He looks at the full journey from initial inquiry through the sales conversation,

helps you identify where things might be dropping off and what to do about it. And what I think is particularly useful to know about Adam's work, and actually it's why I wanted to bring him on the show, is that he focuses on improving what's already there. So he's not just gonna be you go to look for more and more potential clients.

but it's all about actually understanding why the people who are already interested aren't actually moving forwards and booking in with you. Because often it's not about doing more, it's about doing a few key things differently. So in this conversation, we're going to break all of that down. So what is really happening when someone doesn't go ahead and work with you? What makes a conversation convert and actually what stops it?

and how to approach sales in a way that feels simple and aligned with our values as healthcare professionals so that you can start turning more of those discovery call clients into actual clients. Does that sound good? Well, let's dive in. So welcome, Adam. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast today.

Adam Lowther (03:18)
Thanks for having me, Sarah. That was a great intro. Couldn't have asked for a better one.

Sarah Bushell (03:23)
You're so welcome. And just to give everybody a little bit of a backstory, I thought might just mention where we met. Because it wasn't that long ago, it was January, wasn't it? We both were at an event called Expert Empires, which for those of you who don't know, is a bit of a business, online business marketing event for people from all different kinds of backgrounds. And I arrived late and I sneaked in at the back.

and I had a VIP ticket and Adam was sat there as well and we just got chatting and actually we got chatting over the fact that we had these VIP tickets and there was no coffee and there was no biscuits and there was no nice things to nibble on was there?

Adam Lowther (04:00)
Yeah, it wasn't the best. think people were maybe entering the VIP area when they didn't have the badge as well.

Sarah Bushell (04:06)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we were a bit gutted that the food just wasn't up to scratch, but never mind. That's just a little bit of backstory. So let's talk about sales then and why people aren't necessarily signing the clients, because I see so many healthcare professionals who are doing everything right. They're showing up consistently. They're sharing really valuable content online.

but they're still not getting the clients. So I'd love to know from your perspective, what do you think is usually going wrong there?

Adam Lowther (04:40)
Yeah, that is a great first question. I think that honestly, I see it as well. I see people, you know, posting content and they just have in their mind, you know, consistency, consistency, consistency. If I'm showing up, putting myself out there, I'm getting visibility, why am I not getting clients? But, you know, I think beyond that, I think it's looking at kind of the content and the clients as two separate things, two different entities. And really, I think people treat them like the same thing.

So if you view your content as obviously building that awareness and it can build trust when people get to know and like you. But by itself, it rarely converts. It's a little bit like watching a TV program that you enjoy watching on Netflix. You're passively consuming it and you're enjoying it. And then at the end you think, that was good. And then you move on. And it's the same with content. There's so much content out there these days. Everyone's competing for attention online. So you really...

need to think about your CTA within your content, your call to action. So the bridge between your content and the next step that you want them to take, because it's really important that you don't just ask them to visit your website, but actually ask them to do something specific. You know, like comment a key word, or, you know, click on the link and fill out, fill out this form if you're interested in, you know, XYZ service. So.

I think the key thing is your CTA giving them something specific to do that relates to the content. Otherwise people will just consume it and then move on. You know, they'll think it's good, but they won't take any action, which is what as a business owner you want them to obviously do.

Sarah Bushell (06:20)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. know, it's very rarely a visibility issue. It's the conversion, isn't it? It's getting people to take that next step on the journey from moving from, well, this is really helpful, but actually, you know what? Here's my credit card. I'm ready to pay for this now.

Adam Lowther (06:39)
Yeah. And one thing I would add to that is that I think it's easy as not just like a business owner, but as a content creator, because if you're posting content, you are a content creator as well. To kind of maybe take for granted how clear you think your content is and what you're actually asking from your audience, you know, in your mind, because you've potentially wrote a few bullet points to help you or you've scripted it or whatever. It's very clear what the point is and what you want your audience to do.

But I think it's just about keeping it simple and really being specific with what you're asking them to do in the CTA and not making it such a huge ask as well. know, commenting a key word is a really easy way, a really easy thing for someone to do, you know, compared to if you were asking them to, you know, DM me why you want to work with me, why this video was interesting and, know, where you want to take your business. It's just too much. So it's just getting that initial...

interaction from them and everything you do should be optimized to achieve that as well.

Sarah Bushell (07:43)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that's definitely a common mistake. Let's just dive into a little bit about what are some of the other common mistakes you see people make when they're trying to turn that interest into actual paying clients.

Adam Lowther (07:58)
Yeah. So I think really it comes down to how you, how you perceive what you're trying to do at the time. So it's really about thinking about what stage you're at in the process. You know, if you're getting someone to comment a keyword and they DM you the word, you're not going straight into pitch mode because they're going to be scared off basically. So it's just about, you know, bringing it back and thinking about having simple conversations.

and how you can actually talk to someone as a human being, just like you would a friend, just like a normal conversation, just like we would Sarah, talk, ask them, you've commented and what are you dealing with at the moment and really understand their situation. You're messaging them to understand them and ultimately understand if what you do can help them get them to where they wanna be. So...

don't go into pitch mode and take it in a very natural way. Don't be too pushy. But at the same time, if you really believe that what you're offering can help, then you should guide them towards that, you know, through your funnel of like booking a call or whatever it is.

Sarah Bushell (09:06)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that I often hear from my audience, particularly because we are first and foremost healthcare professionals, is that we don't want to push people, we don't want to come across as salesy. And it is a real fear, I think, as well. And I think what you just said there is it's really all about just having conversations with people. And something I learned very, very early on in my

business is that when you're selling something, it's actually a disservice not to sell it if you know that that client actually needs it because you're almost like withholding something that you know that is going to make their lives better. Do you think there's any like mindset shifts that people need to?

or that need to happen that people need to undergo in order to feel a bit more comfortable and a bit more confident around selling their services.

Adam Lowther (10:05)
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that. It's a disservice if you don't show them what you've actually got to offer, if you think it can help. So just quickly going back to that, I think if you think of yourself like a doctor, you know, if someone's diagnosed with a serious illness and you have the medicine that could cure them, you wouldn't withhold it, would you? And it's the same in sales, you know, if someone's in a, ultimately in a painful situation, in a situation they want to get away from and they want to get to here.

Sarah Bushell (10:12)
So.

Adam Lowther (10:33)
and you've got that bridge in the middle, your service that can actually help them get there. You kind of are doing a disservice if you don't tell them about it. I think mindset is probably one of the biggest things in terms of like success with business as well and converting attention into clients because if you don't believe in what you're offering, that, you know, the client can...

can pick that up. It's really contagious that kind of energy that you give off. So I think you've really got to believe what you're offering. But you've also got to get out of the mindset of, I know a lot of your audience are from healthcare professionals and I think it's easy going through being in the NHS and being a care provider. You're in that mindset of, I'm providing

Sarah Bushell (11:12)
Mm.

Adam Lowther (11:22)
care for someone, you're not in the mindset of like, I'm going to be charging someone. And obviously in NHS, it's all, you know, free, you know, mostly. So, I think it's just about the mindset shift between, you're now a business owner and what you're offering creates value and people pay for value ultimately.

Sarah Bushell (11:26)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think that's something I've been touching on recently in my social media, actually, that there's a huge shift that we as professionals have to make, but also that we have to get our audience, our potential clients to make as well, because they do expect health care to be free at the point of need. And so when you're trying to sell your services to particularly a British audience who are used to the NHS,

There is a little bit of work that we have to do to make them see the value of paying for this privately and not, you know, just getting it for free if they wait for long enough on, on a NHS waiting list. So there's definitely mindset on both sides, I think there. And actually that leaves us nicely into the next question I have for you, because a lot of my clients and my people who listen to this podcast, rather than having

like webinars or master classes where they might pitch their offer, they'll do discovery calls. That's the sales mechanism that they use to convert interested people into buyers. And I know that this is where a lot of people get stuck. So I would really love to know from your point of view as a sales specialist, what does a really effective high converting

Adam Lowther (12:48)
Yeah.

Sarah Bushell (12:58)
discovery called conversation actually look like.

Adam Lowther (13:02)
Yeah. So I've actually got a freebie that I'll share with your audience like after this, and this helps with this exact problem. So it's called the Canyon to Conversion Framework. essentially it is built around what you're talking about. And I think it simplifies, you know, what can feel like a really overwhelming process for a lot of people that haven't been in sales. And the way I think about it is, you know, on one side, you've got a Canyon where your prospect is now.

Sarah Bushell (13:07)
Bye.

Adam Lowther (13:29)
current reality, the frustrations, what's not working. And then on the other side, you've got where they want to be. You've got the desired outcomes. And in between these two places, where they are now and where they want to be, there's a gap. There's a huge gap. And your job on the discovery call is essentially, you know, it isn't immediately to start pitching your offer. But it's to help them actually see clearly that that gap exists and understand why it still exists. So...

an effective discovery call has a clear structure. You you start by understanding their current situation, not just the surface level problems, but what it's actually costing them in terms of time, money, stress. You know, they might not be able to spend time with the daughter or the son as much as they'd like. Because a lot of people I think start in a business means I'll reclaim loads of time, you know, be free from a nine to five, but they actually end up working a lot more.

And then past that, you get really specific about where they want to be and you explore why they haven't been able to close that gap themselves yet. So what have they already tried? What got in the way? You know, because ultimately someone isn't going to pay for your service if they think that they can do it themselves. Really important if they have tried to resolve it themselves and they've tried for a long period of time to explore.

know, what have you tried and why hasn't it worked? Because what we're trying to do there is actually get them to realize that actually I do need help. This is a problem I've tried. I might've tried to fix it myself. I haven't been successful. I need help. And that's why I'm on this call now. So it's really reframing it and think, and getting them to think, you know, they're on this call for your help. And then

Basically, if you've done all those steps well, when you come to pitch or if it's a good fit, obviously, and reveal your price, it kind of feels like the next logical step, you know, for them to take. Because they've said, I've got a problem. You've essentially understood what that problem is very well. And you've, you've kind of maybe summarized, okay, so based on, you know, our conversation, this is what I've heard and...

If they are obviously a good fit, I think you'd be a great fit for what I'm doing with this. Are you happy for me to tell you a bit more about this? You pitch obviously what your service is. And then to them in their mind, they're like, my God, this is exactly what I need. Cause you've done the discovery really well. And I think what I would say is the best sales calls don't feel like sales calls at all. It just feels like a really useful conversation.

Sarah Bushell (15:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Lowther (16:05)
You know, it shouldn't feel scripted. And I think that can be the, that can be the, the crux of it sometimes, you know, people new to sales want to have this perfect script in front of them. and what are the perfect questions I can ask and what, know, what are the tricks and really it is just about understanding and taking that time.

Sarah Bushell (16:27)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think people can overcomplicate a sales conversation, can't they? And ultimately, you know, we call these discovery calls, but they're sales conversations. And so the way that I have a very similar description to your Canyon process that you talked about, and mine, I just call it the A to B method. So they're at point A in their pain problem. This is what's going on. Point B, that's where they really want to be. And

our process, our signature framework, unique methodology, whatever you want to call it, is the bridge that takes them from A to B. And then, of course, along the way, they'll have objections. And so we need to be able to answer those objections preemptively, ideally, in your content beforehand. But if not, being prepared on that call so that when they say, but this is never going to work for me because you're ready with that so that you can

overcome those and then when it comes to you presenting your offer. So one of the things I actually often say to my clients is always ask if it's okay to present your offer. Can I, can I explain to you how I can help you with this? no one ever says no, you know, but it's just that permission. It's getting that consent. It's getting that, approval that is okay to move into that sales conversation. Would you agree to ask, to ask for permission?

Adam Lowther (17:38)
I'm

Yeah, I definitely agree

with that because it's not a case of, you know, they're not likely to say no. But it does serve a purpose and the purpose is that the prospect still feels like they're in control. Because as soon as you take that away from them, then people become less open to hearing about what you've got to offer. And it was similar when I did door-to-door sales. You know, the first impression was everything.

Sarah Bushell (17:52)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (18:12)
you know, in my case, just quickly, because it's relevant is, you know, I go up to the door and they wouldn't know who I was. So before I went into pitching the offer, doesn't matter if I had the best offer in the world, even if I said I was doing something for free, people didn't trust me. So I had to bring the guard down straight away. And the way I do that is, you know, through first impressions, appearing well, dressing well, speaking well. And it's the same with what you've just said, asking for permission before you pitch or before you say about your service.

Sarah Bushell (18:17)
You

Yeah.

Adam Lowther (18:40)
They're essentially saying, yes, I'm happy to hear what you've got to say, and I'm interested in what you've got to say. And that helps them feel like they've still got that power. And in terms of the framework that you were talking about, you're absolutely right. You can view it as, you know, Canyon, point A to point B. You can view it as, you know, Hell Island to Heaven Island. Anything that can help you visualize, anything that can help you visualize that disparity, that gap between where they are now, where they want to go.

Sarah Bushell (18:45)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (19:09)
Your service is the bridge in the middle. And, you know, I can go really deep into it. I don't want to confuse anyone, but there are other things like there's different bridges. So there's not just your bridge to this other solution. There's different bridges and they represent. I can do it myself. You've got a competitor, you know, I know someone else who can help me with this other options to get to that place. So the phrase I like to use that I've heard is burning the bridges.

Sounds a bit abrupt and a bit violent, but it really, for me, helps visualise in my mind that analogy of, you I need to burn these other bridges, you know. They're saying they can do it themselves, but let's discuss why haven't you been able to do it yourself. And they might say, well, you know, I've just not been able to do it because, you know, I just wasn't concentrating then, but now I know. it's like, sometimes you need to actually challenge them on something.

Sarah Bushell (19:53)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (20:04)
What you've got to remember is that you have their best interests at heart in a way on the sales call. Of course you want to get the sale if it's a good fit because you're a business and businesses need to make money, but ultimately you're trying to help people. So you've got to just keep in mind that ultimately you're trying to help them and if they're giving like a smoke screen, we call it, then you need to challenge that. And you can say, you can use the permission like you just did with that as well.

So can say, look, can I just be completely honest with you? Or can I just be brutally honest with you? And they'll be like, yeah, what? And then you've got the permission and then it's not being rude or pressurizing in any way. You're actually just calling them out, but in a way that's less sharp, if you will.

Sarah Bushell (20:56)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And I definitely think that's something that I'm probably not very good at, you know, and I imagine lots of people aren't because it feels it does feel a little bit confrontational, doesn't it?

Adam Lowther (21:03)
So.

Yeah,

does. And I think, I think what you said about the handling, pre-handling objections as well is obviously very important. You should, you should think, you know, when you're on that sales call, you know, wherever you're at on the, on the scale, you want to, you want to bring up those objections before they bring them up at the end. And then if you pre-handle them before you get to your pitch or reveal the price, you're saving yourself headache later on. Cause if you don't handle them early on when you reveal the price,

They'll just say, it sounds good. I'll think about it. And really what that means is that I'm not actually confident that, you know, what you're offering will get me to where I want to go. Or it might be that, you know, I don't have the funds at the time to deal with this. Another analogy I like to use for helping people and not feeling bad about it, which your audience might come across, is thinking of, again, using fire.

because fire is like immediate and danger and they need to escape. know, thinking that they're in a burning building, right? If someone was in a burning building and you could help them and you could just open a door to let them out and it was that simple, you'd let them out. you know, in the same way, they are essentially in a burning building. You know, they've got a pain. And for example, say their pain means that they get to spend less time with their young son growing up, okay?

That is their burning building. And that is really, you know, over a long period of time that has a massive effect on them personally, on their family. So really they are in that burning building scenario and they do need saving from it. And sometimes they might not even realize that they're in the burning building. So it's your job to actually ask good questions to ascertain whether they actually realize that they need that help and that you can provide it. And I think...

Probably 80 % of the conversation should be the prospect talking as well.

Sarah Bushell (23:02)
Yeah, yeah. So I think what you just said there was really interesting that, you know, our clients will book in for a discovery call because they have type 2 diabetes, or they want to lose weight, or they've got irritable bowel syndrome and they want to be symptom free. But actually, that's the clinical reason why they're booking. But actually, the real reason is because their symptoms mean they can't spend

as much time as they would like to with their child. Their gut is so painful and unpredictable that they can't do the school runs in the morning. And I think that's something that we really need to get good at is thinking about, what is the actual impact that this clinical problem?

what impact does that actually have on the person's life? Because that's the reason why they're going to say yes. It's not the, it's not their, you know, type two diabetes and the blood sugars up the, you know, up the wall. It's really about the impact that that has on living their lives. Do you agree?

Adam Lowther (23:53)
Yeah, 100%.

Yeah,

at 100 % it's tying it to the emotional reasons, you know, people don't care that their blood sugar levels are going to go up by however many percentage points. It's what effect that actually has and that if that allows them to spend more time, you know, with the son or the daughter, or maybe it allows them to have more funds to treat the family to take them on a vacation or holiday. That's the thing that really resonates with people and what people, you know, buy for.

So yeah, think about it in terms of less, in terms of selling the vehicle of how you're to get someone somewhere and thinking more about the, you know, desired outcome. Like what, what are they actually wanting from this? What actual, actual effect is it going to have on their life? And if you can make it tangible, you know, putting numbers to it, it makes it really tangible. Like if I said, I can save you, you know, seven hours a week, everyone can understand that.

Sarah Bushell (25:00)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Lowther (25:00)
Whereas if I said I can help reclaim your time so that you can do this, it still works, but it's like, what does reclaim my time mean? Because that might mean something completely different to me as it does to you, Sarah. So it's been really specific and tangible. And I think it's important to point out as well while we're on this point, not to brush over it, not to accept the first answer we get.

Sarah Bushell (25:05)
You

Yeah.

Adam Lowther (25:25)
You know, so if I say, you know, what effect would that have on your life or how would that be? And you said it would be great. But why would it be great? Like, what would it actually mean? What would actually change for you? And almost sometimes it's not intuitive, but going on the other side of it. And, you know, when people are saying, yeah, I want to do it now, you know, because I've tried for this long, it's not worked. I need help. Not asking, you know, but why now? Like, why, why do we need to do this now? Like, what happens if we don't?

Sarah Bushell (25:33)
you

Adam Lowther (25:53)
change this in the next six months. And you really want them to get, you really want them to imagine that, you if we don't address this now, then in six months, 12 months time, this is the detrimental effect that it's going to have. This is where I'm going to be. And then it really creates urgency because part of why people buy is urgency. And without the urgency, you know, they can have the desire and they can have the, you know, you can have the best product or service in the world.

Sarah Bushell (25:55)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Lowther (26:20)
But if there's no urgency, they're not going to take action now. They'll just think, I'll think about it and I can do it next week. Exactly, yeah, exactly. It never comes, so.

Sarah Bushell (26:25)
Next week never comes, it?

Yeah, yeah. So actually, we could talk about this for ages. There's so many things there that you've just said, but I just want to get back to what you said there about when the client hesitates and says, I need to think about it. Because I would say, you know, when I do discovery calls with people, one of the things they'll say is, yes, they can get people on a call, but they nearly always say, I need to think about it. And for me, I always say, well, that usually means

Adam Lowther (26:34)
So long.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah Bushell (26:57)
they're not convinced of the value that they can offer. They haven't really understood the value of the service that you can offer. Or you haven't given them a reason to act now. So like that urgency, you said, of scarcity and quite often in our field, is scarcity because if we're working with people one-to-one, we may only be able to work with four clients a month, for example. So that is a, it is not false scarcity. It's not like we're saying, oh, this offer is going to disappear tomorrow.

But yeah, think giving people a reason to act now and not put it off for later or, you know, I have to go talk to my husband about it, that kind of thing. So how can someone handle those moments where people are thinking about it?

Adam Lowther (27:39)
Yeah, I think, I think the worst thing that you can do when someone says, I need to think about it is just say, yeah, no problem. You know, we'll, we'll touch back next week. And it's just the worst thing ever because you know, what is the actual purpose in them needing to think about it? That's what we need to address. because in, most cases it's not a maybe it's, it's just a quiet note. It's an easy way to, to get out of the conversation and be polite, but you know,

We do want to be polite, but we don't want to be polite just for the sake of being polite because we're just wasting each other's time, right? So the first thing that I would do is I would acknowledge it genuinely. The worst thing you can do is disagree and say, no, you don't need more time. What you need to do, because then again, the guard comes up. So the first thing is to appease them. So yeah, I completely understand. But before you go, can I just ask, you know, what is...

What is it specifically that's making you hesitant? Like, is there anything that you're unclear about? You know, because if there is, we can address it while we're on the call now. And then once you've asked the question, let them answer. If there's an awkward silence, great, because that means that they're actually thinking. People are sometimes scared of silences, but it's a good thing. Don't try and fill the silence. Because nine times out of 10, what the real objection is,

You know, you can actually address it then on the call rather than coming back to it. And then the second thing is gently bring them back to what they've already shared with you earlier in the conversation. So if they say, you know, I need to think about it as an objection, but earlier in the conversation, you've done good discovery and you've discovered that they've been trying to solve this for themselves six, 12 months and nothing's changed.

Sarah Bushell (29:05)
Yeah, yeah.

Adam Lowther (29:27)
Well, actually do they need to think about it or do they need to take action because what they've been doing up until now hasn't been working. You know, and there's kind of different ways to do that. Again, you can ask for the permission. Can I give you a different perspective and, and, and, know, do it in a way of like, you know, is it fair to say the decisions you made, you know, so far I've got your way you want to be. And is it fair to say if we want different results, we need to act differently, you know, not in a condescending way, but in a way that points.

Sarah Bushell (29:34)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Lowther (29:55)
And it could sound condescending, but at the same time, it's what they're not doing. Right? Like they're wanting different results, but they're not willing to take the action. Because it gets to a point where, you know, they might say, yeah, that all sounds great. It's really interesting. sounds, everything sounds good. Can you just pop it over in an email and I'll just think about it.

Sarah Bushell (30:01)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (30:16)
And there, what they're trying to do is they're either trying to quietly get out of it because they're not interested or they've got fears there, which you haven't explored well enough in the objections. It might be fears around whether it's going to work. It might be around the price and it might be around how much time commitment they think they have to put in it. For example, they might think that working with you, they have to put in like, I don't know, like 15 hours a week.

They might just think that they might perceive that. And if you've not addressed that or give them clarity around it, that might be the reason that they're trying to get out of the call. Where in reality, they might only need like five hours a week, for example. Really uncovering those objections. And yeah, going from there really.

Sarah Bushell (30:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's just move on to talk about offers now. So a lot of healthcare professionals, I feel, under price their services or what they tend to do actually is they'll offer one-off consultations. And to me, I'm going to put this on the line there. I think a one-off consultation in healthcare is morally wrong.

I don't think we can give people advice and then not follow them up to see how they've implemented that advice to see how, you know, what the impact has been on that, on those changes. So I'm just going to put that out there for people who do one-off consultations to think about. But if you're doing a discovery call for a one-off session that we know isn't going to solve the full problem, because a one-off session might be an hour, for example.

How much do you think that that offer itself can impact the conversion?

Adam Lowther (32:06)
Yeah, I completely agree with what you said about the one-off consultation, especially in healthcare, because healthcare is very, you know, from my understanding, you know, you're trying to take someone in a transformation from where they're at to where they want to go. And there's obviously, can be more devastating consequences if you just do an odd hour here and there, and it's out of context to the whole picture and a really holistic approach. So yeah, I think...

Sarah Bushell (32:17)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (32:30)
You know, the offer is massive, you know, it's probably one of the most underestimated factors in why people aren't converting, right? And I think there are actually two things at play here that are worth separating out. And the first one is the offer itself. It needs to solve a real painful, specific problem, not a vague general problem, like help reclaim your time, you know, kind of thing.

something tangible, something specific that's clear that anyone could understand out of context. And something that ultimately your ideal client is actually losing sleep over, right? And then they need to believe that you can actually deliver it, which comes back to your credibility, your process, your results. And

There's a guy called Alex Hormozzi. don't know if you're familiar with him. Yeah. So he has a great framework around it. And, you know, the stronger your promise and the more valuable, the more believable your delivery, the higher your perceived value, you know, but then there's also the second piece, which is just important, which is how the offer is packaged and communicated. Cause again, you can have the best offer, but if it's not presented to the right people in the right way, at the right times, it just wouldn't work right.

For example, if you try to, someone DMs you the word, you know, healthcare or something for a CTA for your post, and then you just show them the offer straight away you're like, do you want to buy? It's just not the right time. So you could have the best offer in the world and still hear, you know, the crickets. But, you know, if you're not talking about it in the right way. And I think a lot of healthcare professionals describe their offering maybe quite a clinical or professional language that...

could maybe make sense to them, but not connect emotionally like what we were saying before to the person that they're actually trying to help. So the fix is to actually speak directly to your client using their language. So pick up on what words they use, what resonates with them and really use those words to describe their own frustration because when they see it, then it makes complete sense and they think that's actually me. when someone reads your offer and thinks,

this is literally written for me. That's when the conversion gets a lot easier because you're targeting that right person, speaking their language, pointing out their pain points saying, I can solve this. So yeah.

Sarah Bushell (34:51)
Yeah, absolutely. And for any of my clients who are listening and you're saying, God, Sarah, you're always getting us to do this voice of customer work. That's why. And I think, you know, if you're on a discovery call with someone, it's about active listening and paraphrasing that back to them because they'll tell you what you need to say to them in order for that offer to land. You know, you're actually using the words that they've just said, aren't you?

Adam Lowther (35:15)
Exactly, when you're in the discovery call and they tell you, you know, they tell you something like, they've been trying this for however long and, you know, they've noticed that their little girl has been getting really upset because they've not been spending as much time with them. That's something that you should be writing down and coming back to because when you're in the close, when you're trying to close the deal, so to speak, you you want to...

pick up on that when they give an objection of, know, I don't know if now's the right time, you know, like how much longer are you going to allow your daughter to be upset because you can't spend the time that you want with her. And another good thing I'd quickly say is doing a quick temperature check. And I'm a big believer in this. And I think it's really effective when done well. So when you've got the permission to pitch, you've said what you offer, you know, sort of...

asking them, know, on a scale of one to 10, one being, never want to see me again, 10 being sign me up. Where are you at on that scale in terms of this program or this coaching getting you to, you know, desired outcome, wherever they want to be. And what that really does is it just tells you, you're not guessing where the prospects are in their mind. It tells you, it gives you a tangible number where they're at. If they say a 10, then

there's no reason that they won't buy and you can just say, great, are you ready to sign up then? You know, if they say I'm a seven, which is kind of again, like one of these safe numbers, it's kind of, to me, it's kind of saying, I like you, I like what you do, I think it's cool what you do, I'm not quite sure though, but a seven is kind of a good number. And you know, so what you could say is, you know, why are you not like a one or a two? And then they'll start saying, well,

I'm not a one or a two because the coaching sounds good. And you know, the one-to-one sounds good or whatever. And you can say, well, why, but why does that one-to-one sound good? Like what would that actually help you with? And then it really helps them again, think about it. And then you can also say, okay, so you're a seven, but I really want this to be a no brainer for you. I want to give you the most value, you to get the most out of this. So what can we do right now to make it a 10? And there's no harm in asking that because

Sarah Bushell (37:29)
Yeah.

Adam Lowther (37:32)
It might be something really simple. It might be, I'm a seven. I would be a 10, but I'm just a bit unsure because I'm not sure I commit like 15 hours a week to this. You know, I only have like maybe five to seven hours max, cause I'm super busy. And then you can go, Oh, hang on a minute. It's not 15 hours a week. It's actually like five hours a week. And then you've addressed that concern. And then if they don't give any other reasons why they're not a 10, then they're kind of saying there's no reason that they wouldn't go ahead.

Sarah Bushell (37:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Lowther (38:03)
And then

you reveal the price and they don't go ahead. That means there's an objection they've not told you about. So it's just constantly going back to that objection handling and, and getting rid of their limiting beliefs, reframing their mindset, you know, like when someone says, if someone says, you know, it's a bit more than I thought it's quite expensive or, you know, I've seen other people do it quite a bit cheaper. You know, there's loads of ways you can.

Sarah Bushell (38:08)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Lowther (38:29)
reframe that, you know, it's not about the money, it's about the value and you know, you can say, the cost of this is two grand or five grand or 10 grand, whatever it is, you know, but what's the cost of you, you know, your daughter, you know, getting upset all the time, like how much longer are you going to allow that to go on? And then you're tying the value to, you know, how much would they pay for their daughter not to cry? Again, it's bringing it back to that emotional and it's not manipulative. It's actually just guiding them towards a decision that

they should make that will be the best for them to help them get where they want to be.

Sarah Bushell (39:03)
Yeah, and I remember once years ago when I first started in the online business space, someone saying to me that people will pay more to move away from pain. So, you know, reminding them of what the pain is that they've already told you about will help them move forward on that journey. And you've also just reminded me there about it was very early in the maybe in the first lockdown, I think it was early sort of 2020, someone

a coach actually, a business coach that worked with the time telling me about the temperature check thing. And as soon as I started to implement that, so I got into a phrase of saying, know, okay, you're a seven out of 10. What would make it two points higher for you? And then they would tell you, and it was always something really simple like, oh, you know, this sounds great, but I'm going on holiday for two weeks over Easter. And you're like, that's fine. We'll pause it for two weeks. We can do the extra two weeks at the end. You know, something.

within your gift to be able to change, it's very rarely something that's out of the question. So thank you for reminding me of that little story.

Adam Lowther (40:07)
Yeah,

that's funny. That's quite funny actually, because I think a lot of the time if somebody likes you and they think actually, you know, at the end of the day, there's never 100 % certainty with anything. So if you're on a call and you're telling someone what they essentially want in their mind is 100 % safety, 100 % certainty that I'm going to spend this money and I'm going to get this result. But unfortunately, that's as we know, not how the world works. So sometimes being honest with them and saying, look, you know, I could sit here and say,

that you're 100 % certainty going to get this result. And, you know, but if I said that I would be lying and I'm honest, firstly, you know, but what I can tell you is if you do this, then we will be taking you through this process and that will help you achieve this goal if you're willing to work with us and do this. So it's just reframing it in terms of their expectations and what's actually possible. And it builds trust.

Sarah Bushell (41:03)
Yeah, and I think that's really important for healthcare professionals to hear because we can't make promises, you know, we're dealing with human beings and their health. And, know, whether you're a doctor or a dietician or a physio or whatever, we can give people the advice, they still have to then go and implement it themselves. And sometimes, you know, that advice doesn't work because we're all humans with human bodies that all work slightly differently to each other.

So we can't offer promises. So I love the way that you've just framed that, you know, that, you know, you can't give a hundred percent guarantee that this is going to work, but actually this is the process. These are the results that we've had. If you follow the process, this is what you can expect.

Adam Lowther (41:46)
Yeah, And you can, you can phrase it, you know, in terms of like, like you've just said, you know, I can't make a hundred percent guarantee because there's so many factors and variables and you actually have to do the work. You know, even if you do the work, there are factors and variables, but what we've seen is these people have got these results when they've taken this action. And, know, I can, I can say that if you do these things, then your life will change in some way, you know, and then you're not putting a number on it and tying it down.

and it motivates them to take action, I think.