Ep 13 - Becoming a published author, how Kirsten Jackson added a new income stream to her IBS dietitian business

Episode Show Notes

If you have ever fancied writing a book, you are going to love this episode! Today, we have a truly special guest who's not only a leader in the world of dietetics but has also built a thriving business that reaches far beyond one-on-one consultations. Kirsten Jackson, also known as the IBS Dietitian, shares her journey as an online entrepreneur with a focus on her new book, "Take Control of Your IBS," published by Bloomsbury Publishing.

In this episode Kirsten shares her remarkable journey from starting her career to becoming an influential figure in the dietetics world. She provides insights into her alternative income streams, the process of writing and marketing her book, and the day-to-day operations of her successful business.

1. Kirsten's Journey: Kirsten's path from a newly qualified dietitian to a renowned expert in IBS, highlighting the importance of niching down and embracing online opportunities, especially during COVID-19.
2. Book Writing Process: An inside look at Kirsten's experience with writing "Take Control of Your IBS," including initial challenges, the support from Bloomsbury Publishing, and the adjustments made to create a comprehensive and engaging book for readers.
3. Business Growth: The evolution of Kirsten's business, from offering one-on-one consultations to developing group programs, eBooks, and online courses, along with SEO-driven advertising income.
4. Marketing Strategies: Effective marketing techniques used for promoting her book and business, including the importance of building relationships with influencers and leveraging social media.
5. Future Plans: Kirsten's vision for the future, which includes expanding her group programs, potentially venturing into the supplement or tech industry, and maintaining a balance between clinical practice and business growth.
6. Practical Advice: Tips for aspiring authors and business owners, such as the value of detailed analytics, the importance of discipline and goal-setting, and the benefits of seeking mentorship or coaching.

• Instagram: The IBS Dietitian
• Website: The Food Treatment Clinic (soon to be rebranded as IBS Dietitian)
• Book: Take Control of Your IBS (Affiliate link: Available on Amazon, Waterstones, and major bookstores

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Episode transcription:

Beyond the Clinic EP13

[00:00:00] Sarah Almond Bushell: Hello and welcome along. Today we have a very special guest with us, someone who has successfully navigated the world of dietetics and has created a thriving business that does extend well beyond one to one consultations. My guest today is Kirsten Jackson, also known as the IBS dietitian. Kirsten is not only an expert in her field, but she's also one of my esteemed business coaching clients.

[00:00:28] Sarah Almond Bushell: She has made a remarkable impact in the world of nutrition and dietetics, and particularly for those dealing with irritable bowel syndrome. So in this episode, we are diving into Kirsten's alternative income streams, but with a special focus on her brand new book called Take Control of Your IBS. It's published by the, world renowned Bloomsbury Publishing.

[00:00:54] Sarah Almond Bushell: So we're going to chat through her journey in writing and marketing her book and what it's like to work with a major publishing house. And she's also going to give us some insights into the day to day operations of her wildly successful business. So without further ado, let's welcome Kirsten to the show. Welcome, Kirsten. I'm absolutely delighted that you've come to talk to me on my podcast Beyond the Clinic. Do you want to kick off just by introducing yourself and letting everybody know what you do?

[00:01:25] Kirsten: Yeah, sure. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Kirsten Jackson. I'm a consultant dietitian who specializes in irritable bowel syndrome.

[00:01:32] Kirsten: I've been a dietician for around 12 years now. I can lose track of the years after a certain point, but I work all online and I own the food treatment clinic, and we are in a rebranding process but that's my speciality area, which I'm sure we'll go into in a bit more detail.

[00:01:48] Sarah Almond Bushell: Brilliant. That's great.

[00:01:49] Sarah Almond Bushell: And I'm always really intrigued to find out people's backstory and how you ended up in the online world. Would you mind just giving us a little bit of an overview of how you got to where you are now?

[00:01:59] Kirsten: Yes. How long have you got?

[00:02:00] Kirsten: It's a long process. So with it, I think I basically, I started around two years into being qualified, so 10 years ago now.

[00:02:09] Kirsten: And like probably many people, I thought I'm going to see everything in it. Everyone. And I remember someone coming into my clinic and in person clinic and pay me, I think it was like 40 pounds. I couldn't believe somebody was paying me cash for advice. It was just an unbelievable feeling, but of course, after paying the actual rent and everything, you weren't really left with much.

[00:02:28] Kirsten: So then I started working with business coaches over the years. And then I actually became really interested in narrow gastroenterology anyway, quite early on. And so I was advised, niche down. So I did finally niche into IBS, But it wasn't really until probably COVID where I was fully online.

[00:02:45] Kirsten: Because I think there's always that perception of value and what's online versus what's in clinic, which was always, I think, something that really held people back to be honest, because there's so much cost involved in actually being in person. And then since COVID, it's really just taken off to be online only.

[00:03:00] Kirsten: And obviously it doesn't really matter then where your clients are, or you are, there's so many benefits to that.

[00:03:05] Sarah Almond Bushell: Absolutely. Just leading into that, could you just give us a little bit of an overview of how you make your money in your business? What sort of services and things do you offer for your clients?

[00:03:16] Kirsten: Yes, of course. So I do offer one to one services. I've got a group program, so pretty standard things I think a lot of people have heard of. E books we do as well but then we also do some other bits. So I have an advertising income from SEO on my website. Great. And then also we do the dietitians IBS course now.

[00:03:34] Kirsten: So that's what training other dietitians within the realm of irritable bowel syndrome. I do work with brands sometimes, and I've recently had a book published, which I've had. A certain fee for so far, but we will see how much that then brings in the future.

[00:03:48] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, absolutely. So let's dig into that and talk about your book because I think it's really inspirational to have a fellow dietitian be approached by a publisher and have a book published and all the success that you've had around that.

[00:04:04] Sarah Almond Bushell: Can you talk us through that journey? How did that all kick off for you?

[00:04:09] Kirsten: Yes, so I think in business I've always been very aware of the idea that it's much quicker to find someone else who's done something that you want to achieve and just ask them how they did it. Because a lot of these things you can spend years, and I probably have spent years to a certain extent, trying to find out things.

[00:04:25] Kirsten: And so I, after probably about six months of realising I wanted to I don't even know where to start. Do I go to an agent or I go to the publisher? What does it, do I have to write the whole book? There's so many questions and anyone has to just Google that. And there's no straightforward answer.

[00:04:41] Kirsten: I actually then just reached out to a colleague of mine who had written a book. And I said, look, this is my idea. Do you have a contact or an agent? And they actually said, Oh, I can do one better than that. I have direct contact with the publisher. And they got back to me within a week. a few hours and basically say, can we have a meeting?

[00:04:56] Kirsten: So I was very lucky in some ways. But I suppose you could also say at that point, I wasn't a new dietitian. I'd been in this area for a while. I'd gained quite a bit of like followers and things like this. So yeah, it worked out well.

[00:05:08] Sarah Almond Bushell: Absolutely. And I think you said to me that after you submitted your initial proposal, they came back to you within four hours because they were so excited by the concept of your book.

[00:05:18] Sarah Almond Bushell: Is that right?

[00:05:19] Kirsten: Yeah, absolutely. And then what was really nice is they wanted to work with me on this. So they knew there was a gap in area. And they were quite, they told me my initial idea was not that great, actually. They were like, we know that it needed to be an IBS book and we know we want you to write it.

[00:05:33] Kirsten: But I have obviously had no experience at this point in writing a book. So I had thought. I'd written down what I thought was a good idea in terms of different chapters. And I think with content, and not to go off on a tangent here, we're always taught to get clients from A to B as quickly as possible.

[00:05:47] Kirsten: And with the book, it's very different content and people typically want a lot more in depth, lots of all the nitty gritty. So as soon as I wrote that down they were like, yeah. That's it. That will do.

[00:05:56] Sarah Almond Bushell: That is absolutely fascinating, isn't it? Because you're right, everything that we do in our clinical practice and, everything we do really is about getting people results and really helping them achieve what they want to achieve.

[00:06:08] Sarah Almond Bushell: So coming to it from a completely different perspective, with a book and it's I guess it's more about keeping people reading and keeping people interested so they get to the end. I've never really thought about it like that. So did you have to make a lot of changes to your initial plans?

[00:06:25] Kirsten: Yes.

[00:06:25] Kirsten: But to be honest, it ended up being the book that I really enjoyed writing because I think I've always tried to curb like how much information I know about. to keep someone interested in the content. So even with the courses, they work really well, etc. But we are just getting straight to the point.

[00:06:40] Kirsten: Whereas this was like the nitty gritty of the different science and why we wouldn't do it was a much more fun book to write. And it really suited my audience because anyone who works with IBS clients will know. They know their stuff, they have, they know some of the research, they've Googled things.

[00:06:54] Kirsten: They don't want to be told just the same old things again. They want to know everything ins and outs and why you wouldn't do it. So it was a much more fun book to write. And as soon as they gave me that, that we want you to put everything you, into this book, I was like, Oh, brilliant. And then I sent them back that new proposal and they were like, yep, that, that will work much better.

[00:07:10] Sarah Almond Bushell: Awesome. Oh, that's really great. So actually, if anybody else is listening, who's thinking about writing a book, that's a really top tip really, isn't it? That's a great piece of advice to be able to share with people to, put everything in there. I think that's great. And actually, so just linking into that, have you, I know it's early days because the book only came out very recently, but have they given you an indication of how much money you can expect to make from a book?

[00:07:36] Sarah Almond Bushell: Absolutely

[00:07:37] Kirsten: none. And this as a business owner, it's probably the most frustrating thing because I'm so used to doing, a launch and I can see it per hour of how many people are looking, how many people are converting data. And this is, I don't even have access to data anyway. So you have to wait for someone to email you back.

[00:07:53] Kirsten: And the issue is, and I think this is what I'm understanding. Someone else needs to ask me in two years from now, I think. But basically it's a bit difficult to track because the publisher has the number of books that have maybe been gone out to bookshops out there. And then, but they don't know how many are going to be returned, how many have actually been sold necessarily.

[00:08:11] Kirsten: There is a database showing the sold ones. That's where you get the Sunday Times bestseller from and things like that, but that's not always accurate. So it's a bit, and then for my book, for instance, it's only just been published in the UK. So it's not being published at the minute in the US, which is in July and then Australia, and then they're going to be doing it in different translations as well.

[00:08:30] Kirsten: So all they've said is we're very happy with the numbers. This is what the numbers are, but that's how many books are out there in the world. That's it.

[00:08:37] Sarah Almond Bushell: So it's a bit of suck it and see really.

[00:08:39] Kirsten: Exactly, but I have to say from, from the outset what's happened is that my clinic has got really busy, so it's a sign that people are obviously buying it because then they're saying, oh we found you through the books, it's been great PR, but I don't know how much I'm going to earn directly from the book yet, we'll see.

[00:08:54] Sarah Almond Bushell: We'll wait and see. Oh fingers crossed it's lots. But they give you an advance, don't they? So you have some money. Because obviously you need to take a little bit of time out of your day to day in order to write the book. So you do get some money to get started with so that you can facilitate that.

[00:09:10] Kirsten: Yeah, absolutely. And I'd say to anyone who is thinking about writing a book, do consider that because you might think, oh, that's a lot of money. But actually, I think work for me probably worked out about 2 p. m. hour or something because there's so many hours involved in it. But it's not, I didn't see it as a money making exercise.

[00:09:27] Kirsten: I seen it as partly a passion project. I think there's a huge gap in the market there where people, they don't have the help, they can't afford a private dietitian. They really need something else. But also it's PR exercise. It's not necessarily something you're going to make millions from. You might, you never know.

[00:09:42] Kirsten: But I guess only some people are going to be in that position where they can take the time out maybe from the other paid work to do it.

[00:09:48] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what you said earlier there about actually there being a bit of a knock on effect in terms of people getting in touch and wanting to work with you and your clinic, it's clearly having that effect already, isn't it?

[00:10:00] Kirsten: Yeah, exactly. I think fully booked now.

[00:10:03] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, fully booked. Excellent. Love it. Love it. Great. So let's just talk a little bit about marketing and how you get your message out there. When it came to your book marketing, did you do some of that? Did the publisher do some of that? How did that look?

[00:10:18] Kirsten: Yes, it's all over the place.

[00:10:20] Kirsten: There is marketing within, like I worked for Bloomsbury, they're the publishers. So for anyone who doesn't know, they actually published Harry Potter. So it's like a big company.. So they've got their own publishing team. They've got their own marketing team, et cetera.

[00:10:32] Kirsten: So they did that. But the way they did it was probably around a month before it was going to be out. So they started sending it to influencers within the field, things like that. And then when it was actually out, they were able to reach out to radio stations and TV. and try to get those PR kind of things.

[00:10:49] Kirsten: For me personally, what I did for the book, for instance, I started probably about a year before just trying to make relationships online is what I would say because influencers often they're not getting paid unless they're like really big time influencers. And so then You can't really accept them to work for free.

[00:11:04] Kirsten: So you do need to create that relationship with people so that they feel, that you're supporting them and that kind of environment. So I started probably a year quite intentionally before, just making those relationships and making sure then when the time came, not just for the book, but the general business, it's good just to have people supporting you.

[00:11:22] Kirsten: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the things, you're absolutely right with whatever aspect of business that you're in, that whole visibility piece is so important and one of the things that I've found really helpful is being visible in other people's audiences because you're almost leveraging their audiences, borrowing their audiences in order to to leverage your own.

[00:11:45] Kirsten: And I can see how. When it comes to publishing a book and promoting a book, I can see how that could be really key because presumably they get a copy of it so then they can take photos and share about it, give little snippets of information that they found really useful as well. Is that what, is that the kind of thing that they did for you?

[00:12:03] Kirsten: They did, but just little things like that, somebody sent me a book and I don't know them. Am I going to spend, take time out of my day to go and do that for them and promote them and things like that? Probably not, unless it's like a really awesome book, which obviously my book is an awesome book, but, and I think, you just need to build those relationships as well.

[00:12:19] Kirsten: But yeah, ideally they would be sharing it or, Bringing some tips for it and things like that. And even with the book launch a lot of people would do things like just a drinks reception, for example, which is very common. But I was thinking if I want certain people to be there, then I need to offer them a little bit more.

[00:12:35] Kirsten: So I did and this is something people don't realize. I did pay for like my book launch myself. And I put on like an actual dinner and drinks for people. So it's a little bit more of a thank you. And everybody there was from that book launch. that industry. So everybody knew each other.

[00:12:48] Kirsten: So it was a little bit more giving back rather than just asking for favors as such.

[00:12:53] Kirsten: Yeah. And really good fun as well, to be able to celebrate your success with the book. So yeah. Yeah. I love it. So what's your favorite bit about marketing? Is there anything that you love? Is there anything that you really don't like?

[00:13:06] Kirsten: Probably

[00:13:07] Kirsten: the best bit is the data. So I'm a bit of a geek. And I think to be honest this is a bit where I think most dietitians don't realize where they could be flourishing is that we're really good at being analytical and that's what marketing is. I think it's very easy to get mixed up with the, Oh, how many views did I get?

[00:13:22] Kirsten: Likes, followers, it doesn't make any difference really. It's more about the actual analytics. So I quite like looking at the data and learning about how to look to see if something's working or if it's not really getting down to that nitty gritty.

[00:13:34] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, you and me both. I do love my numbers.

[00:13:37] Sarah Almond Bushell: Because then you can make evidence based decisions, can't you? It's not just going with your gut or what you fancy doing today or, you actually responding to how your audience responds.

[00:13:47] Kirsten: Yeah, but I think you like numbers more than me because I know when we were working to coach it, you were just, we've got to go back to the numbers, go back to the numbers.

[00:13:54] Kirsten: I thought, Christ, here we go.

[00:13:56] Sarah Almond Bushell: Here we go. Yeah. I do like the numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Okay. So I would love to know a little bit more about your business. Is it just you or do you have a team? How does that look?

[00:14:07] Kirsten: Yeah, there's a lot of us doing various bits. So there's me who does obviously most of the work.

[00:14:12] Kirsten: It's my company. Then I have a business manager, Serena, who's been with me for years. She was actually a previous client a long time ago and now she's a registered dietitian. So unique find. She's absolutely amazing because she is obviously understands dietetics, but she understands What our clients need.

[00:14:29] Kirsten: So she's been quite open about that, but she oversees everything, just the running of everything which is really good. So she's a business manager. Then we have a medical review board which is probably more for SEO, but some doctors who just help overlook, oversee any of the content that's more medical based to make sure it's accurate.

[00:14:48] Kirsten: We have about seven writers at the minute who write SEO content for the website which I then review and then Serena puts on, trying to think who else we've got involved. And then I've just got a new social media manager as of today.

[00:15:01] Sarah Almond Bushell: Oh, congratulations. Awesome. So a huge team, really.

[00:15:04] Sarah Almond Bushell: That's fantastic. That's brilliant. And how long, when you first start out in business, obviously, you just, it's just you, isn't it? Wearing all the hats. How long would you say it took before you could start to get to that point where you had your, where you could bring in your first team member?

[00:15:18] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, I forgot my most

[00:15:20] Kirsten: important team member. My assistant. I had all my admin stuff there. I was thinking, where have I forgotten in that team? So I also have an assistant. So that was the first team member I brought in. So probably around two years in. And it's probably a combination of, I brought in, I probably didn't need it before then because I wasn't busy enough, I'll be honest.

[00:15:39] Kirsten: I know a lot of people who say, oh, from the get go, if you can outsource this and that, but I probably didn't have enough clients to even warrant it. And then around two years then I started working with virtual assistants. Yeah, brilliant.

[00:15:49] Sarah Almond Bushell: That's right. And I think you're right, when it gets to that point where you just need more time, the easiest thing to outsource is stuff that doesn't require your face, your voice, and your unique skillset.

[00:16:00] Sarah Almond Bushell: If you can outsource all of that. Frees up your time to be able to take on income generating activities. Fantastic. Brilliant. Okay. So I would love to know what are your, what's your five year vision? What are your plans going forward in your business? Good question.

[00:16:19] Kirsten: One that I need to answer. Five year business, so ideally what we want to see happening is a group program really taking off.

[00:16:26] Kirsten: So I want to step, not step away from one to one, because I think it's good to always have some clinical input, to be honest. Especially for my field, where the science is always changing, you need to be really in touch with how patients work, what they need, and things like this. But what I want to do is get that group program going, more people in it, and then step back a little bit from it.

[00:16:44] Kirsten: So it'd still be me doing, obviously, the course and everything for people, but the live elements I wouldn't have as much involvement with. And then I'm actually thinking about doing two options next. I don't know if I've got shiny object syndrome, but either starting a supplement company, which is in making them just get an accountant stuff together, or I'm actually going down the tech route and doing an app.

[00:17:05] Kirsten: Because they're both good opportunities, but I think, I'll be honest, I went quite far down the supplement route and I actually think there's more opportunity in the tech side of things.

[00:17:14] Sarah Almond Bushell: Interesting. Oh watch this space. I'd be really keen to see what happens there. Yeah, fantastic. Brilliant. I'm going to go through my five quickfire questions for you, if that's all right.

[00:17:27] Sarah Almond Bushell: Number one, best part of your working day.

[00:17:30] Kirsten: Probably the morning time. So I have a really chilled morning now. I take my little girl to school. I go to Jiu Jitsu and then I start my morning off and it's just, I feel like it's really chilled even though it's work because everything is in place. So I really enjoy just getting my emails out, doing that to do list, looking at the schedule.

[00:17:46] Kirsten: And I know it sounds really boring, but for me, it's just seeing everything organized. I really enjoy that.

[00:17:51] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know about you, but I find my brain works better in the morning. Yeah, definitely one in person. Yeah, absolutely. Fantastic. Okay, number two. Why do you do what you do?

[00:18:02] Kirsten: I just love dietetics and I know that might sound really sad, but I really love it.

[00:18:07] Kirsten: So I'm a real geek. I honestly sometimes can't believe I get paid for what I do. Sometimes it's such job satisfaction, helping people, but it's also so interesting. It pays well, it's a nice job. I don't honestly see any drawbacks. So yeah,

[00:18:22] Sarah Almond Bushell: very lucky. I love that. That's brilliant. That old saying, if you love what you do, you'll never feel like you're doing a day's work.

[00:18:29] Sarah Almond Bushell: That's exactly that, isn't it? Brilliant. I know the answer to this next question. Tech, love it or hate it?

[00:18:36] Kirsten: Love it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:38] Sarah Almond Bushell: It makes my life a lot easier. Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone listening who is scared of the tech, please don't be. It's there to make your life easier. So definitely.

[00:18:47] Sarah Almond Bushell: Brilliant. Love that one. Number four. How do you stay motivated?

[00:18:52] Kirsten: So I would say this is a little bit of a myth and I hate anyone that's I'm so motivated today. This is my morning routine. Nah. It's all that stuff. So much PS that sometimes you'll have motivation and sometimes you just need discipline to just get on with it.

[00:19:04] Kirsten: And there are days like someone messaged me the other day saying, Oh, your book's just come out. You must be really busy. And honestly, I end my bed with the curtains drawn watching Netflix and I had loads of things to do. So you have days where you're not. But to be honest, I think it comes more for obviously I love my job.

[00:19:17] Kirsten: I'm motivated, but really it comes from the discipline and having set goals, a schedule and just getting on with it.

[00:19:23] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, absolutely. I think you're so right about that whole discipline side of things, because lots of people I seem to be under this illusion that running a business is easy or easier than working, for the NHS or for another employer.

[00:19:36] Sarah Almond Bushell: And, it can be simple, but it's not always easy. So I think having that discipline is really important. Love that one. Fantastic. And then number five, last question, what's one thing, now that you wish you could tell your former self when you were just starting out in business?

[00:19:53] Kirsten: I wish I'd be more analytical rather than I'll try this, I'll try that.

[00:19:57] Kirsten: Oh, it hasn't worked. We'll do something new. I wasted so much time and probably quite a bit of money rather than just being really analytical. And at the start, you don't have the skills to do that. So invest in a coaching if you can. And I'm not just saying that because I'm on Sarah's podcast.

[00:20:10] Kirsten: I think it would have saved me a lot of time and made me a lot more money earlier on. Just to be like analytical and really looking at like, why has something hasn't worked rather than just getting upset about it.

[00:20:20] Sarah Almond Bushell: Yeah, absolutely. So it goes back to the data side of things as well, doesn't it? Like we were saying earlier.

[00:20:25] Sarah Almond Bushell: And I love what you said earlier about finding someone who's been there and done that way you can learn. Because I think that's, we're all, we all come to business with our own unique skillset. So it doesn't necessarily mean that, somebody's further ahead than you. You've just had a different experience.

[00:20:41] Sarah Almond Bushell: And if you can benefit from, working with them or being mentored by them too. Benefit in your business, then that's definitely something that you should do. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Kirsten. Where can people connect with you?

[00:20:57] Kirsten: So either my Instagram, the IBS dietitian, or you can go to my website, the food treatment clinic, although we are in a rebranding process, so it might be IBS dietician, by the time you look.

[00:21:08] Kirsten: By the time they get there, fantastic. And where can they buy your book? In any shop on Amazon, Waterstones, any shop, and in the US it will be available, it's now available in Amazon, but it will be available locally. There you go, good

[00:21:21] Sarah Almond Bushell: crop. Anyone watching on video, I'm holding a copy, take control of your IBS.

[00:21:27] Sarah Almond Bushell: Fantastic, well done. Thank you so much. Thank you.